Negotiations with the USA and Russia are completely pointless. But we need to endure.

The well-known saying “wisdom does not always accompany old age – sometimes the latter comes alone” aptly characterizes some of the world’s powerful who are deciding the fates of countries today, but it does not apply to the interlocutor of “Glavcom.” At 91, Yurii Shcherbak thinks clearly and conveys facts precisely. Although he has faced many trials in his life. 

Yurii Shcherbak was born in 1934 in Kyiv and was a child during World War II. He received a medical education: specializing as an epidemiologist. He fought against cholera in Ukraine and Uzbekistan. During Stalin’s times, his elder brother Mykola was accused of nationalism and sentenced. 

In the 1950s, Yurii Shcherbak began his literary career: he is a brilliant prose writer. In the late 1980s, he moved away from writing and entered politics. He was elected as a People’s Deputy of the USSR (1989-1991) and led the Green Party after independence. In 1991, he was appointed Minister of Environmental Protection. Then he began diplomatic work. 

In 1992-1994, Shcherbak was Ukraine’s ambassador to Israel, in 1994-1998 he headed Ukraine’s diplomatic mission to the USA and concurrently to Mexico. In 2000-2003, he was an ambassador to Canada. 

Shcherbak gained particular recognition for his research on the Chornobyl disaster. Like Lina Kostenko, he visited the Zone numerous times. In 1987, still during the USSR, he published the documentary tale “Chornobyl.” Overall, Shcherbak has a large and diverse body of work, as he also worked as a screenwriter.

In 2026, Yurii Mykolaiovych’s literary work was honored with Ukraine’s highest award in this field. We begin our conversation with a question about this. 

Mr. Yurii, you received the Shevchenko Prize for the anti-utopian novel “Dead Memory.” In the novel, Ukraine lost the war, it is occupied, though thanks to a few passionate individuals, the struggle continues. Is this how you see our near future?

No, this is a completely mistaken understanding of my book. While working on it, I contemplated two figures: the number of losses Ukraine has suffered since 2014, and the number of traitors who sided with the enemy. And I realized a sad truth for myself: a significant number of our citizens have simply lost their historical memory. And people who do not know who they are become easy prey for those who hunt them. Memory must be preserved – as Poland or Israel does.

If you want to know what I think about the prospects of the current war, I refer you to another of my books called “Ukraine’s Third World War.” The subtitle is “Our Victory-defeat and the Fall of Russia.” Yes, all in one word – “Victory-defeat.” Because Ukraine has strategically defeated Russia as none of Putin’s goals have been achieved. However, my oxymoron “Victory-defeat” has a second part, and I will explain why. I believe we are now in a state of national catastrophe, as we have suffered enormous casualties and losses.

A few more words about books. Publisher Ivan Malkovych wanted my “Doomsday Weapon” – a story written in 2016 about a group of Ukrainian scientists restoring nuclear weapons – to be nominated for the Shevchenko Prize. An expert gave me an idea for this book: in the ruins of the fourth reactor of the Chernobyl NPP remains a lot of plutonium, and plutonium can also be used to create nuclear weapons. However, the Shevchenko Committee chose to nominate “Dead Memory,” for which I am very glad – it is an important book for me.

Is that why we are participating in trilateral negotiations with the USA and Russia?

Of course. The negotiations are completely pointless. But if we refused them, we would be accused of being against peace. Therefore, we need to be very careful and wait out this situation with Trump. And it will end – sooner or later. Yes, we are under enormous pressure right now. Yes, we are effectively being asked to capitulate and surrender Donbas. But we need to endure and not worsen relations with Trump’s administration.

Recently, Iran began to threaten Ukraine for our readiness to provide drones to Middle Eastern countries opposing it. How serious are these threats, and are we making a mistake by getting involved in this war?

The threats are quite serious. Especially since Iranian shahids are already flying to Ukraine. But tell me something else: why on earth are we even maintaining diplomatic relations with Iran?

This is unknown. But they haven’t been severed with Belarus either.

I just want to remind you where the Iranian embassy is located. It is situated at 12 Kruhlouniversytetska Street in the so-called Savitskyi’s mansion, built by architect Belyaev at the beginning of the 20th century. A beautiful mansion, located, moreover, very close to Bankova and the president’s administration. Walk along it and see how many antennas there are. Can they listen to the administration? Theoretically, yes.

So I don’t understand why, after Iran shot down our passenger plane in 2020 and since 2022 has essentially been involved in the war on Russia’s side, we still maintain diplomatic relations? What does this give us? And answering your question: yes, they can strike us with ballistic missiles. All of Europe, except Portugal, is within the range of Iranian missiles. And if the Iranian regime remains in its current form—a government of fanatical radicals in power who hate the Western world (and they consider Ukraine part of the Western world)—this threat will continue to exist.

“Russia is hopeless. Especially its ‘deep people’

In 1989-1991 you were a People’s Deputy of the USSR, part of the Sakharov group, and obviously had a lot of contact with him. Sakharov, like those Russians who took to the streets against the GKChP dictatorship in 1991, can probably be considered ‘good’. And if so, then tell us, how did this nation turn into a nation of killers and, at the same time, obedient sheep, incapable of protest? Or is the whole reason that there are critically few like Sakharov, Novodvorskaya, Politkovskaya in Russia?

I have a very pessimistic answer to your question. I am convinced that this nation will never be adequate. Especially the so-called ‘deep people’. Sakharov and Politkovskaya are exceptions to the rule. They represented a very narrow group of people who thought democratically and respected Ukraine and our distinctness. This thin layer of Russian intelligentsia is now scattered, with some sitting in Moscow too afraid to speak out, and others having moved abroad.

How can we coexist with Russia after the war? Unfortunately, it is not going to disappear from the world map…

I have an article on this topic that I would very much like to introduce to our leadership. I propose adopting a law on the protection of Ukraine from Russia. For a certain period, say, 20 years. Announce a complete quarantine on any connections—economic, business. As soon as the war ends, our corrupt businessmen will rush to drink vodka with the Russians and trade gas. And once again the fifth Russian column will be everywhere—from business circles to the Security Service of Ukraine, as it once was.

As a model, I propose taking the laws of Czechoslovak President Edvard Beneš, who resigned in 1938—immediately after the Munich Agreement. In 1945, he was reinstated as head of state and issued 143 decrees against the Germans, who occupied Czechoslovakia and took the Sudetenland. At that time, three million Germans were expelled from the territory of Czechoslovakia, and those who remained had to wear a patch “N”—”German” or an armband with a swastika. They were forbidden to speak German, deprived of Czechoslovak citizenship, and barred from attending public events, among other things. These were harsh restrictions, and from the point of view of abstract humanism—even cruel. But the Czechs had no other choice.

I am not calling for such extreme measures against Russians living in Ukraine, but I call for maximizing restrictions on Russian influences. However, I hope that our military, after the end of the war, will not allow “waiters” and collaborators to raise their heads.

“Trump can promise anything to anyone. His words are worse than the Budapest Memorandum”

More on nuclear weapons. We briefly touched on this issue already. You worked as an advisor to Kuchma from 1998 to 2000. And Kuchma was the president who signed the Budapest Memorandum. Did you ever ask him what convinced him to put his signature to it? And did he believe the other signatories, especially Russia, “at their word”?

Kuchma is a complex figure. He is not strictly black or white. At that time, Kuchma was under immense pressure. Initially, he was against giving up nuclear weapons… But, as Leonid Kravchuk told me, the day after Ukraine declared independence, an order came from Moscow to immediately remove all tactical nuclear weapons from our territory. These were mobile units that would have been very useful to us… Kravchuk himself was not yet president at that time and had no influence over the army.

And Volodymyr Vasylenko (diplomat, Ukraine’s ambassador to the EU, Ukraine’s representative to the UN Human Rights Council and the International Court of Justice; passed away in 2023 – “Glavcom”) once said a very reasonable thing. We should not have aimed for money when signing the Budapest Memorandum but demanded membership in NATO, he said…

Overall, it’s a complicated story, and I initially made mistakes in it because I perceived the memorandum positively. But now I am convinced that Ukraine should never swallow such bait again and fall for false promises. Today, we need documents of a completely different class and quality that would guarantee us true security.

What should these documents be? Now Trump’s team promises to “build paradise” in Ukraine if only we leave Donbas. So once again, on one hand, sweet promises, and on the other, a weakened, drained Ukraine. Once again, pressure and blackmail, once again a situation that seems almost hopeless. What should we do to avoid stepping on the same rake again?

Trump can promise anything to anyone. It’s worthless. He says one thing in the morning and something entirely different in the evening. Trump’s words are even worse than the Budapest Memorandum. At least it was signed ceremonially – in the presence of heads of state. I think Clinton and Thatcher believed in it, but Yeltsin probably did not, because it’s an old Russian “tradition” to promise and not deliver, to give one’s word and break it.

So what should we do with America?

Demand the adoption of a law on Ukraine’s guarantees by Congress with subsequent approval in the Senate – only that way! And even then, such guarantees may be a temporary measure. We will always have to fight for our right to live in safety.