Nobel Peace Prize Laureate (1983), leader of “Solidarity” in the 1980s, the first president of democratic Poland (1990-1995). A man who became a legend in his lifetime. He led the trade union movement in Poland to which millions of people joined, and whose decisive actions led to the fall of communism in Poland, and subsequently, by domino effect, in all other Central European countries.
Despite his advanced age, Lech Wałęsa continues to actively travel the world and share his invaluable experience in fighting for human rights. And wherever he is, he is invariably accompanied by a small Ukrainian flag on the lapel of his jacket or on his shirt.
On the eve of the fourth anniversary of Russian aggression against Ukraine, the former president of Poland shared his thoughts with a Ukrinform correspondent, particularly regarding Ukraine’s struggle against the aggressor, the actions of the West, and the state of present-day Russia.
THE WEST MUST TRULY STAND UP FOR UKRAINE
– Mr. President, we are speaking on the eve of the fourth anniversary of the full-scale war that Russia unleashed against Ukraine. Looking back over these past years, do you think the Western world is helping Ukraine enough to withstand Russian barbarism?
– If they were helping enough, we would have long forgotten about the war. The Western world must stand up for Ukraine – but truly, by providing Kyiv with all the possibilities.
– In recent years, you’ve worn a badge with the Ukrainian flag on your shirt or jacket. Why is this so important to you?
– To remind every second about every Ukrainian and about the suffering of the Ukrainian people, who are defending human dignity. We must do everything to help Ukraine as quickly and powerfully as possible.
– There are increasing voices in the West about fatigue from the war, fatigue from helping Ukraine, and the necessity to limit it. What would you say to the representatives of Western civilization in response to such statements?
– I would tell the authorities: it’s your fault that such voices appear. Because if you had taken the matter seriously from the start, they wouldn’t be there.
– Mr. President, the Winter Olympics are still ongoing in Italy. The situation with Ukrainian athlete, skeleton racer Vladyslav Heraskevych, who competed with a helmet featuring photos of Ukrainian athletes killed by Russians, caused a stir. The International Olympic Committee banned him from this, citing internal rules. How would you comment on this decision?
– If others, including politicians and major sports figures, had done what they should, there would have been no need for this. In the current situation, something had to be said. Since others didn’t do it, perhaps sport will tell the world what it must do regarding Ukraine.
QUICK ACCESSION OF UKRAINE TO THE EU – THE ONLY WAY OUT
– Currently, trilateral negotiations are underway between Ukraine, Russia, and the USA. US President Donald Trump is pressuring Ukraine to agree to the terms of a ceasefire, including relinquishing part of the territories in exchange for rather uncertain security guarantees. Should Ukraine agree to peace at any cost?
– Under no circumstances. Not an inch back. Ukraine is struggling, it is suffering, but it cannot retreat, it cannot give anything to Russia. Nothing should be given away!
– What consequences, in your opinion, should Russia face for unleashing the largest war since World War II?
– In fact, we are dealing poorly with Russia. Russia is not Putin or Stalin; it is a political system. We must help Russia change this system. If we do not, even if Ukraine wins the war, in ten years Russia will rise, and our grandchildren will have to fight it again. The leader of Russia should not be in power for more than two terms and no longer than five years each. If, back in the day, Stalin, and now Putin, had only two five-year terms, they would never have created such a threat to the world.
– Would the situation change if Russia were to split into smaller states?
– We need to tell the peoples of Russia: ask your grandparents where your ancestors’ graves are, what did the Russians do to your leaders? You can be part of Russia, but you must care for the memory of your ancestors. This is the kind of struggle we should encourage them to undertake.
– One of the possible security guarantees for Ukraine is an expedited procedure to join the EU and possibly in the future, NATO. Do you support this idea?
– If I hadn’t done everything to get Poland into the EU and NATO, they would have done the same to us as they did to Ukraine. Despite the assurances of great world leaders, the agreement was destroyed, and Russia did what it wanted.
That’s why I insisted so much on Poland’s accession to the EU and NATO. Of course, I planned to do this together with Ukraine, but I lacked a second term.
– So you support Ukraine’s quick accession?
– Yes. It is the only way out. Everything else is bad.
THERE WILL BE NO FREE POLAND WITHOUT A FREE UKRAINE
– Mr. President, you travel the world extensively and give lectures on democratic transformations. What myths do you most often have to dispel?
– Actually, for many years I have been traveling primarily for Ukraine and only incidentally for Poland. That’s why I mainly speak about Ukraine. I do it in a way that is relevant and engaging. That is my goal.
– Do you think the current generation in the West appreciates what the previous generations fought for – freedom of speech, freedom of movement, European values? Do you agree that Ukrainians today are fighting and dying for these basic values?
– The problem is broader. Our generation must shift from thinking in terms of individual nations to continental, and sometimes even global solutions. If we do not do this, we will perish like other great civilizations. After the fall of Soviet communism and the dismantling of the post-war world order, the world needs to be reorganized. But first, we need to discuss this, reach consensus and understanding. We are currently in such a period of discussion.
– During your presidency, Poland was the first in the world to recognize Ukraine’s independence. Why was this important to you?
– I was raised with the belief: there will be no free Poland without a free Ukraine – regardless of our shared history. This is ingrained in my conscience, and I have implemented it, am implementing it, and will continue to implement it.
– Can it be said that without a strong alliance between Warsaw and Kyiv, there will be no secure Europe?
– Above all, there will be no free Poland, and hence no secure Europe.
– What would you like to say to Ukrainians today?
– Please, endure. Despite the blood and many injustices inflicted on you, endure! And your leaders must seek convincing arguments, as many pretend not to understand – their eyes need to be opened.
